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go'gate

Lacrosse 2016

Coach Murphy posting 7 commits on twitter:
https://twitter.com/ColgateLacrosse

Colgate tied Delaware in scrimmage, 8-8.  Pics below:
http://laxmagazine.com/multimedia...016_colgate_delaware_kevin_tucker

Bucknell beat Delaware in its season opener, 13-5.  Is that an ominous sign?  Michigan lost to UNC, 20-10; we will be in Ann Arbor this weekend...and play Bucknell at home on the 27th!

Here's hoping last year's success will lead us to another PL title and deep into the postseason again this year.
go'gate

Michigan 9
Colgate 8

We were the favorite to win, and should have.  Like many games last year, we found ourselves in an early hole.  Very sour beginning to the season and another weak start after a strong finish last year.  Typical of so many Colgate teams.  Michigan has yet to have a winning season but this will give them confidence.

Every OOC game is crucial, even at this early stage, and this first loss could really hurt.  Just when you think you've turned the corner and can play with the big boys...close game, guess it's time to reboot.  Would have been a nice win for the Patriot League.  A lot to think about on the ride home.  Time to even the record next weekend!

vs. Binghamton 2/20
go'gate

'Gate only 5-17 at faceoffs.  That statistic will never win a game.  Reminds me of our kicking woes in football; you'd think we'd recruit someone.  Colgate now the highest ranked team Michigan has ever defeated.  Their new program only needed a few years to stick it to the Raiders.  Even BU hammered us last year i8-11 at home in only their program's 2nd season.
CR(colorlessraider)

Why didn't they recruit a F/O guy???
go'gate

Colgate did outshoot the Wolverines but had some woeful statistics.  Their goalie carried the day.  The last paragraph of this article says it all and there is reason to worry.  It's going to be a long season of playing defense and playing from behind.  Without Walsh and Clarkson, nice to see a more balanced attack.  ROTY Abbadessa with only 1 assist.  Holding a team to 9 goals is not bad, either...but even Lehigh put up 11 against Duke (the latter had an awful game IMO).

http://www.insidelacrosse.com/art...michigan-upsets-colgate-9-8/33949

Barely survived Binghamton 10-9 last season.  Bucknell looms large and our season could be over before its barely begun with a loss to the Bison.
go'gate

Colgate 11
Binghamton 4

A very necessary win to stop some early bleeding, but game stats (other than the score) are a concern; ground balls and faceoffs are critical.  This won't pass any test against teams like Syracuse or any Patriot League rival.  Allowing only 4 goals is impressive, but the competition wasn't so it's a bit misleading IMO.

Game Stats    BU     COLGATE
Shots            32     35
Turnovers            15     10
Caused Turnovers    4       3
Faceoffs Won    12       7
Extra-Man Opps      2       3
Ground Balls    22      15
go'gate

Host #20 Bucknell (3-0) today at noon.  'Gate the underdog according to IL, even at home.  Not surprising when Bucknell's Witzal has a 70.69% faceoff rating.  The Bison have 37 goals in 3 games.  Road to the PL title begins today.
Steve

I am a-liking the result vs Bucknell. And I will leave it to you to look over the stats and other coverage: no problems with face-offs or shots on goal.

Looks to me like a smart and well-coached team, once again. Well done ro Coach Murphy, his assistants and the team!

Go 'gate!
CR(colorlessraider)

Cleveland sure shoots a lot. F/O much improved. Very nice win!
go'gate

Serious doubts when down 5-1 like we were at Michigan, but lacrosse is a game of huge momentum swings.  Bucknell's wins were not over the best teams and they were put to the test against Colgate.  Great watching them in person on a sunny, brisk day with some nice fans in the stands!

Closing out games and scoring EMOs would be good...we were up by 2 late in the game.  F/O wow...and SOGs...this has become our calling card.  The only stat I don't see posted are clear attempts.  This is a fantastic to start to league play.

BU upsetting Navy...you just knew their fledgling program would not take long to develop to become a PL power.

@ Lehigh Saturday.  Will never forget the sight of them waving their &%*# flag on our turf.  Hope we can return the favor.
60salum

'Gate is #26 in the computer rankings on Laxpower. Lehigh at #13 and Bucknell at #16. Of course it's early yet.
go'gate

Down 7-3 vs. Lehigh at the half.

A mere 4-12 on f/o; outshot 15-23 which is surprising.  We usually throw everything on net.  Scored only 1 EMO goal this season and are 0-1 today.

Third game out of 4 where we find ourselves in another deep hole.
CR(colorlessraider)

Sloppy.  Lehigh is a good team but we sat on the ball too much especially in first half.  Still sub par on F/O.  Burke not at his best today and too many unforced turnovers.  We do have potential as we have some good shooters!
go'gate

Lehigh 12
Colgate 9

Stats improved for the second half and f/o were even which is great, but down by 4 against any team is a recipe for a loss.

Bucknell getting hammered by Navy; our OT win against the Bison not looking so impressive.  Will be a very long season for the reigning PL champs.  Hobart up next.
RichH

A closer game than I anticipated. Gate hadva very strong 3rd. Talented squad will get better. Today unforced TOs and inconsistent middie play. FOGO needs to at least get close to break even %. Glad we played you early tho.
go'gate

Colgate 7
Hobart 6
FINAL

Temporarily stopped the bleeding with this much-needed win against a very average/sub-par team.  Second game where we matched the opponent on f/o, wow.

Next up: BU, ranked #18, but only have one quality win over Navy IMO.  'Gate and BU could be evenly matched and seem to be more defense-minded teams, but the nod on offense goes to BU.  Just find it unreal how a new program to a new league takes only 3 years to develop and make it into the national polls.  Something is wrong with this scenario IMO.  As I've questioned before, not sure BU is the best fit for the PL given its size, location and global exposure.  Colgate cannot compete with recruiting on those levels and it's already beginning to show against the rest of the PL.
Gate'83

Richmond beat Duke yesterday in their 3rd year as a D1 program, we lost to Michigan... maybe the dynamics in getting from nowhere to good in lax aren't the same as in other sports?
RichH

Hobart not a bad team. A good W. BU hired an excellent coach and is almost fully funded. Will be at 12.6 next year. I have my qualms about BU's fit in PL but they are here. We all need to up our game. Their recruited athletes have to meet the same AI. Not their onus to downsize athletics to fit. Up to us to meet the challenge.
CR(colorlessraider)

We have not recruited well and have not capitalized on Peter Baum winning lacrosse's Heisman award!
Gate Raider

Poor recruiting always seems a problem with lax and hockey.  Colgate just can't maintain momentum after good seasons.
Oldtimer

Women lost to Cornell tonight. Really frustrating we cannot beat them in Lacrosse men or women. Women's program going nowhere. Coach seems adequate similar to women's b'ball coach. Seems to be no expectation that they win more than lose!
Raider Archivist

That's a very flippant, uninformed and irresponsible comparison, since NICCI of WBB has exited today after 5 years.

Heather Young has been the H.C. of WLAX for 10 seasons, has been PL Coach of the year twice, has a couple of PL championships under her belt, and fields teams that are perennially challenging for the PL Tourney with Navy, Boston and Loyola. Two of the latter 3 are usually in the top 25 in the nation.

Where have you been ?
Oldtimer

Whoa, I clearly was not intending to be flippant in any way. Other than a late post on the Basketball forum page which I had not read there is no way to have known Nicci had resigned as there has been no official announcement anywhere that I can find. As for Heather, my frustration is with out of conference losses and non-changing schedules with teams like VT, Siena, and other lesser lights we should be consistently beating by now. Last weeks loss to Siena was a total melt down in the second half and yesterday's loss to Cornell was similar to a lesser extent. I cannot remember beating Cornell in the last 5 years although they are always middle of the pack Ivy League. Obviously, in my opinion, end game strategy is lacking and that is frustrating. Further last year's star has been a non factor, that's also frustrating...Again all this is my opinion which is why forums like this exist. Heather is going no where with her husband an important part of the football team... OCC games are scheduled to prepare the team for the League games later in the season. If we are not as focused on these games as we are with League games let's up our RPI and play Syracuse, U of Fla, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern in our OCC schedule. Then if we lose it will sting less...I love lacrosse and want Gate to be the best it can be in both men's and women's game. I just don't see that we have learned from past efforts so far this year and for me Cornell is the one OCC game we absolutely should star on the calendar each year...until we can beat them on some sort of consistent basis we won't be able to compete for the best upstate players which is Heather's life blood...
Raider Archivist

You are correct that Colgate does not schedule from the top 25 teams in O.O.C. play, as the other PL WLAX contenders, Navy, Loyola and Boston do.  
Each of those schools are full scholly. Do you know the number of schollies that Gate WLAX is allotted ? Certainly, the competitive complexion at the top of PL WLAX has changed significantly with the addition of Boston and Loyola. Perhaps it is time for the Administration to beef up its support.

You are correct that given that Gate is in one of the national hotbeds of lax that it should be aspiring for a more challenging o.o.c. schedule, as Kathy Brawn has in WSOC.  But, I believe Heather would have to be brought up to full schollies for that level of "stretch game" ( Cuse, Fl, Hopkins, etc. ) to be meaningful.

But, none of this should justify calling out Heather's overall accomplishments to date ( "Women's program going nowhere." )
Oldtimer

Obviously you feel the progress Heather has made in 10 years is satisfactory. I'm not so sure but admit I may have been overly aggressive in my comment. I wish her well in the future and hope that with or without full schollies she schedules more reach games so the team can see what to aspire to and show their goods in recruiting hotbeds...Patriot Championship is obviously No 1 goal each year, but beating Cornell at least 50% of the time has to be a close 2nd...I grew up in Northern NY and constantly hearing obnoxious Cuse and Big Red lacrosse fans gab on and on drives me crazy. I sort of know what the Hobart guys always felt and continue to feel...2nd class citizenship... One of the greatest Colgate sports pictures of all time is the last second winning goal against Cuse +/- 5 years ago at Andy Kerr scored by Brandon Corp (I think)  over the top of voluntary Men's coach Matt Abbott in real time with the mirror picture above it on the Jumbotron...An absolute classic!
go'gate

BU 11
Colgate 6

Tough to win games when you're only 3/21 on f/o.  This isn't a surprise, but it must not be a recruitment priority for Murphy.  While the season feels all but over, we'll always have last season...and next.  Just dumbfounding that our program with (some) accolades and history has been pasted twice in 3 years by BU's new, nationally-ranked team.

No wonder Starsia only stayed 2 years.

vs. Cornell 3/15; if history is any indication...
bison137

Raider Archivist wrote:
You are correct that Colgate does not schedule from the top 25 teams in O.O.C. play, as the other PL WLAX contenders, Navy, Loyola and Boston do.  
Each of those schools are full scholly. Do you know the number of schollies that Gate WLAX is allotted ? Certainly, the competitive complexion at the top of PL WLAX has changed significantly with the addition of Boston and Loyola. Perhaps it is time for the Administration to beef up its support.




I'm curious as to how many schollies Colgate gives out.    It is clearly significant, although a bit less than Boston U and Loyola.   Here is the money each PL school spent last year on women's lax for salaries, scholarships, recruiting expenses, and similar items (does not include any travel expenses etc):


American University     248,827
Boston University      1,067,033
Bucknell University       616,049
Colgate University       879,906
College Holy Cross       356,936
Lafayette College       639,640
Lehigh University       797,394
Loyola University       1,136,310


Bucknell is up by a huge amount over the last two years - having never given scholarships before three years ago.   Lehigh is also up a lot over the past two years.   Colgate spending is up about $150,000 over that period.
Raider Archivist

Bison, it's probably fair to extrapolate a % from the raw numbers that you provide. Colgate is probably at 80% of the schollies that Boston and Loyola give out. Navy is at the max or beyond. btw, Navy has responded to the presence of Boston and Loyola by upticking their o.o.c. schedule significantly this year. They frequently scheduled the Northwestern WLAX team in recentt years because NU Coach Kelly Amonte Hiller was one of the Navy Coach's stars in her long regime of national championships at Maryland. ( Loyola's highly regarded coach Jenn Adams was also a former Maryland star..... A collection of superb coaches and an "old girls network" if there ever was such a thing !)

But, this year Navy's o.o.c. RPI-building schedule includes playing  Florida (Fall ), Hopkins ( Fall ), Georgetown, Virginia Tech, Duke, Villanova, Virginia and Boston College.  Of course Navy is driven by several factors: it's in the heart of lax country and Navy also wants to distance itself from Army's introduction of WLAX this year. The Navy move is also a recognition that the PL may become an 'NCAA Tournament two-bid conference' in the years ahead.

If those three top PL teams start to run away from the rest, it will probably be a strategic decision at Gate if they want to add more dollars to the WLAX program to stay in the mix. I don't know if that will happen? It has been a successful women's sport at Colgate under Heather.

WLAX is becoming the strongest Women's sport in the P.L., as far as providing a national presence. So, we'll have to see how it plays out.
go'gate

vs. Cornell Tuesday, 4pm

Lost a heartbreaker in OT last year, 9-8; the stat that sticks out from that game is 7/23 on faceoffs.  I don't see how we win when we're just as poor in that area this year and lost some amazing talent to graduation.  Despite playing at home, there really isn't any home field advantage for this game.

Big Red with wins against Hobart and Virginia; losses to Albany and Penn State.  If there was a year we could squeak out a win, this could have been it...but without a strong f/o guy, it will be an uphill battle.
go'gate

Cornell scores with less than 1 second left

Cornell 6
Colgate 5

19 years without a win against the Big Red.  You can't make this stuff up.
Another good defensive effort.  Another sad loss.  An unfortunate but increasingly predictable losing season after winning the PL title.

FWIW, 4-14 on faceoffs.
Gate'83

If it's any consolation, did you know our record vs. Cornell in football over our last 19 games (dating to '93, with some off-years thrown in) is 17-2?  Maybe Biddle made some sort of deal with the Big Red lax coach...
CR(colorlessraider)

Lost 10 of 14 F/O.  We lose too much!  Thank Goodness for football!
go'gate

We had our chance to score the go-ahead goal with possession in the Cornell zone and 2min to play; a very poor over-the-shoulder shot (that looked more like a volleyball spike IMO) on the doorstep forced an easy goalie save by Cornell.  After that, You.  Just.  Knew.

Holy Cross has been snakebitten, Bucknell is up and down.  Lehigh is solid and BU, despite its record, has not played the most competitive schedule.  Given Colgate's weaknesses and current record, BU's most impressive win was a 10-9 squeaker over Navy.  But hey, they are 6-1 and we aren't.

Just how does a program rise to the top and stay there?!  McDonald and Smith in hockey, Corp, Lalli and Baum in lax...Colgate can't be unique and subpar seasons must happen elsewhere.  I bleed maroon and any loss in any sport is catastrophic!

We are in a lot of these lax games, but if defense wins championships then we will just have to wait until the PL tournament to prove it.

Very Happy
Oldtimer

We've been saved in the past during so so years by the tournament, witness last year, but we still have to finish top 4 to get in...This year with BU, Lehigh, Army and Navy all seemingly stronger than us we can only hope to win out against the Service academies HC and LC and root for all the leaders to knock themselves off or we're going to be on the outside looking in.

As many have noted, the faceoff X has been our bane and I only hope Coach Murphy adds at least 2 and possibly 3 recruits to next year's squad who can help shore up the mess. Brandon Corp had Chris Eck and P Baum had a very solid FO guy from either Chaminade or St. Anthony's. We need someone similar in order for this generation of players to show their stuff...
CR(colorlessraider)

It was obvious last year that we needed a F/O guy but Murphy didn't go out and get one.  Moreover. When I last looked at the list of incoming recruits for next year I did not see a Faceoff guy.  What is he doing??
Oldtimer

Saw beginning of today's game against Fairfield when it was 1-2 then ran some errands during which I peeked at my phone and noticed it had gotten to  2-9 at one point. What led to this shellacking? We had more shots, actually won the face-offs and I heard an announcer say as the game was winding down that Burke couldn't have done much more. Was it our D? I did notice the freshman Cleveland took 10 shots and only netted 2.  Could we perhaps be relying on him too much to our detriment. He's certainly not yet the player the big boy who graduated last year was...
CR(colorlessraider)

Cleveland shoots too much. Our goalie is fine; the team is not very good right now.
bison137

Oldtimer wrote:
We've been saved in the past during so so years by the tournament, witness last year, but we still have to finish top 4 to get in...This year with BU, Lehigh, Army and Navy all seemingly stronger than us we can only hope to win out against the Service academies HC and LC and root for all the leaders to knock themselves off or we're going to be on the outside looking in.




Top six make the tournament.   Has been that way for the past few years.
go'gate

I hope Fairfield is better than their record indicates, because right now we are bad.  Unfortunately, we dig ourselves into an early hole every game.  Win the f/o battle and still lose the war.  We stand in 7th place and are out of the tournament; can't remember the last time we didn't make the cut.  A drop-off from winning the title is always expected, but what a disappointment with no hope for recovery.
The Lone Haranguer

Sad to say we are not a good team, in my opinion. Fairfield was a quicker and faster team and took advantage of that. They spread out our defense and we allowed way too many scoring opportunities to cutters. Plus, our defense appears to be slow-footed. Offensively, we seem to do a lot of standing around; not a lot of movement in front which allowed  Fairfield to pack the D in front and only afforded us long perimeter shots. We clanked a couple of shots off the post that would have made the score closer early on, but their goalie didn't have to work too hard on our shots. I counted at least five waist-high, stick -side shots that the goalie merely caught as if they were passes. Half time adjustments, anyone?
60salum

go'gate wrote:
A drop-off from winning the title is always expected, but what a disappointment with no hope for recovery.


Yes, a drop off is expected when you lose good players, but is there not a core of excellent players left from last year's roster to give us a better outcome than this? Gheez.
go'gate

Recent article on IL.  Had typed a response not knowing I needed a fb acct to post, but here it is!

http://www.insidelacrosse.com/art...d-patriot-league-and-more/34439/3

The Patriot League is still trying to find its competitive niche.  The PL is deep within itself; however, non-conference wins against signature, renown programs remain elusive and leave these schools in the rear view mirror.  The PL also remains unpredictable.  Loyola seems to benefit a great deal from scheduling games with its former rivals, and its proximity to JHU, UVA and Duke help.  The Greyhounds may have fared better had they joined a more substantial league for lax (ACC) and after winning a national championship, wonder if the PL is holding them back.  Winning the PL title was difficult enough with 7 teams; with the addition of BU and Loyola, coming out on top of a 9-member conference is almost impossible.  Other conferences restock and reload; that seldom seems the case with the Patriot League, where a successful year seems to happen every 1 in 4.  Here's to the League gaining in popularity, strength, and success.  Recruits certainly have their choices of more legendary programs outside of the League to choose from besides a Lafayette or Holy Cross.
go'gate

Prediction for Saturday v Army: The reigning PL champions will trail after 1 period of play 4-0, ultimately losing 12-6.  Faceoffs: Army 19, Colgate 4 (Army topped Lehigh in f/o 22-5, Lafayette 17-5, Holy Cross 22-5, Rutgers 19-9).

Army wants revenge, and they'll likely get it on our turf.
go'gate

Army 11
Colgate 7

Down 7-2 at the half...'nuf said.  My prediction wasn't too far off, but we have fared better on f/o the last 2 games, glad to see.

Next 2 games v. Loyola, @ Navy...ouch.  Afraid we'll be 3-8 before too long.  Can't remember the last time we've had a losing season as poor as this, or not made the playoffs, even since the Lalli/Corp days (and without having BU & Loyola in the mix).

Loyola stays strong year in, year out...Army too, and Navy has a rich history.  Hope this year is one and done.
CR(colorlessraider)

Not unless we get off our ass and recruit better than we have the last four years!
bison137

go'gate wrote:
Army 11
Colgate 7

 Can't remember the last time we've had a losing season as poor as this, or not made the playoffs,



If Bucknell loses to Lehigh, then Colgate should make the PL tournament.    Would just have to beat HC and LC, who don't have a league win between them.
go'gate

Makes our win over the Bison that much more significant, but HC is just waiting to play spoiler.  Would be great to make the tourney but there is no reason to think the Raiders' outcome would be any different.  The Bison and Crusaders have made me scratch my head more than once this season.
go'gate

If only the top 6 seeds advance to the PL tournament, Bucknell's 8-7 win over #15 Army could be the final nail in Colgate's coffin.  Congrats to the Bison, always love an underdog victory.
RichH

LU beat #20 BU. LU tho very up and down. Injuries have forced a lot of frosh on the field. GK out as is FOGO.  Pretty sure we have worst FO % in PL. No lock to beat Bucknell. So dont give up hope. Smile
go'gate

Rich, are those injuries you mentioned to BU?  We'd win the tiebreaker over Bucknell, but we won't beat anyone above us this season.

vs. Loyola today @ noon on CBS Sports Network.  Hoping Colgate + Spring Snow = Upset.  Otherwise, fingers crossed that the Raiders can keep it respectable on national tv.

Love the upsets this season...traditional powerhouses in the ACC and BIG 10 are losing and it's GREAT.
RichH

Nope LU. G,FOGO,D worst hit. A number of walking wounded had to play yesterday. Watching your game now. We have Loyola next week. Ugh.
go'gate

At least the winning team has a long ride home to dwell on that awful win!

We won 4 faceoffs today and were outshot 2:1.  Please consider forfeiting the game against Syracuse!  Suppose if teams like BU can make a resurgence, it makes sense that others will fail.

If there isn't (much) recruiting success after having a Tewaaraton winner on your team, then this year will have a devastating effect and a potential slide toward mediocrity.  Really hoping this season is one and done and that this is not the beginning of an unfortunate trend.  Murphy got lucky with Baum since his parents were alums, so maybe recruiting is in question?  Maybe it's something more...is the PL really improving as a whole?  If all conferences continually get stronger, then aren't we in the same place we've always been?  I see BU and Loyola dominating year in and year out, with Army or Navy putting up a fignt.  And though not popular for saying so, it's b/c they're larger schools in better geographic areas with larger (BU, Army, Navy) exposure.

Another loss at Navy next week, so let's fast forward to HC which promises to be a real barnburner.  Our gushing jugular needs some major surgery!
RichH

That was ugly. Difference I saw was overall team speed. Gate D just couldn't slide fast enuf or stay with dodges.
PL is improving as a league 4 in the top 20. Ivies have hurt our recruiting. They have really amped up theirs. Luckily this year Gate and Lehigh dont define PLlax.
the last indian

Correct the mistake

We hired the wrong guy to coach this team. In over his head. Can't teach.  Can't recruit.  Move on.
CR(colorlessraider)

The last Indian is 100%correct!  Move on.  He is lazy and does not recruit!
Oldtimer

Not sure how history will judge Murphy, but all of the good guys he inherited from Nagle are gone so it's now on him.  With the Abbott brothers from the 'Cuse area we should be able to mine the gems of upstate but have really gotten nowhere there. Under Nagle we also used to be based on D so scoring only 4 goals might have yielded a 4-6 loss. Now no D no O and certainly no Fogo, which is an unpardonable offense. Could be a rugged next several years...We have to protect our commitment to wanting to make this a premier Colgate sport, we can't accept mediocrity for much longer before making a change...Forget location, look at Denver, Brown. Richmond, Highpoint, etc...it's coaching and recruiting and the kids thinking they are going to a place that wants/needs to win....
60salum

LAX seems to be copying the Colgate curse of ups and downs. Hockey is on the same page with success followed by plunges to the depths of the league standings. We can't have two of our signature sports continue on this MO. Something has to happen to make sure these two teams keep on an even keel or our recruiting REALLY will be on life support going forward.
The Future

Colgate goes up 2-0 and then gets two penalties for unsportsmanlike conducts penalties for yelling at the refs in the 1st quarter and gives up some easy goals and falls behind 8-2. Unless there is a miraculous comeback, this isn't the game you want on national TV.
the last indian

Coach

Hire Mike Pressler, the former Duke coach, who was unjustly railroaded out of Durham. Now at Bryant. He has been in purgatory too long especially considering that the charges against the team were all false.
bison137

Pressler is a very good coach - but there is zero chance he would leave Bryant for Colgate.  He has already turned down ACC and Ivy head coaching jobs to stay there.  He has a great loyalty to them, and he now has very good facilities. Also has a program that is well-funded and has almost no academic standards to hamper recruiting.

Additionally Bryant is paying Pressler at least twice as much as Colgate is paying is paying Murphy.
go'gate

And there you have it, dollars and cents.  Murphy is just another hire in a long line of non-head coaches who land at Colgate as their first stint at the helm.  Was he hired by Chun's infamous predecessor?  As far as I can tell, Chun is only responsible for hiring Hunt (FB) and Waeger (Swim/Diving), yes?  And Hunt was a no-brainer!

If lax woes continue, it's only a matter of time before the Abbotts bolt.  Matt is only a volunteer; he has no loyalty to Colgate and should get out while his Colgate resume is reputable and worth something.  Mike came from D-III Cortland; another stepping stone hire by Colgate and only a matter of time before he's on to greener pastures, too, like Starsia.  And what a joke that turned out to be.  This season had better be one and done.

BTW, Nagle has Stony Brook at #8 this week in the polls...

I stumbled across this page.  Do we have a web designer at Colgate?  Do we have color media?  Are we in the 21st century?  This looks like high school and makes a terrible impression.

http://gocolgateraiders.com/sports/2015/10/16/GEN_1016150633.aspx
go'gate

Colgate must win out and get some help to make the playoffs.  So damn hard to stay at the top after a championship season.  Feel just awful for the team.

http://www.insidelacrosse.com/art...rink-following-loss-at-navy/34701

Go 'Gate
Beat HC
CR(colorlessraider)

Coach Nagle

Should have kept him! But $ talks and Nagle walks.
bison137

go'gate wrote:
And there you have it, dollars and cents.



I didn't mean my comment to imply that Murphy is underpaid.   It was more a comment about Bryant paying Pressler a very high salary.   He may be in the top 10% of D1 lax coaches in terms of base pay.    He is paid more than Loyola's coach and more than almost all Ivy coaches.
Oldtimer

Yeah there is no way Pressler would leave Bryant now after all the hard work to get them to where they just beat Brown last week an excellent team this year and Harvard a few weeks ago. Good pay, loyal administration, good vibes for a coach who deserves to have a top program and compete with the best annually and he's close...
go'gate

I don't care how much Pressler gets paid, there's NO way Bryant will be an annual top program.  They may regularly finish at the top of their conference but that isn't saying much.
The Lone Haranguer

go'gate wrote:
And there you have it, dollars and cents.  Murphy is just another hire in a long line of non-head coaches who land at Colgate as their first stint at the helm.  Was he hired by Chun's infamous predecessor?  As far as I can tell, Chun is only responsible for hiring Hunt (FB) and Waeger (Swim/Diving), yes?  And Hunt was a no-brainer!

If lax woes continue, it's only a matter of time before the Abbotts bolt.  Matt is only a volunteer; he has no loyalty to Colgate and should get out while his Colgate resume is reputable and worth something.  Mike came from D-III Cortland; another stepping stone hire by Colgate and only a matter of time before he's on to greener pastures, too, like Starsia.  And what a joke that turned out to be.  This season had better be one and done.

BTW, Nagle has Stony Brook at #8 this week in the polls...

I stumbled across this page.  Do we have a web designer at Colgate?  Do we have color media?  Are we in the 21st century?  This looks like high school and makes a terrible impression.

http://gocolgateraiders.com/sports/2015/10/16/GEN_1016150633.aspx


Be sure to look for go 'gate's review of the 1932 football team. Preview: "the defense is awful; they allowed too many first downs and let a team inside the 40. Fire the coach." "The double-spinner plays don't work; they get stopped two or three times a game. Fire the coach." "Soleau only gained 10 yards. I can't wait until he graduates. Fire the coach." "Maroon helmets? What were they thinking? Fire the coach. AD, too."

Your negativity is tiresome.
The Future

I like lacrosse but I have a pretty basic understanding of the game. I watch a few Colgate games and a few others a year--but that's about it. I really don't know if Murphy can coach or recruit but the team did win the Patriot League last year and I'm almost certain no other coach has had more PL rookies of the year since he took over the team.

I don't know what the scholarship situation is at Colgate but it seems like Colgate has fewer to offer than the top lacrosse schools (and a lot less than the Ivies). Seems to make sense that you would have more up and down years with fewer guys getting full rides since there is less of a margin for error in terms of who you bring in and what happens when guys get hurt.
go'gate

The Lone Haranguer wrote:
Your negativity is tiresome.


Not sure that sarcastic, personal insults on a public forum are the best way to present yourself.  Do us all a favor and skip over my posts in the future.
Steve

It's funny that you mention it. And it's sad at the same time... I happen to agree that this level of negativity is tiresome. It is also degrading to the forum and most importantly is damaging to the entire program.

So you want to denigrate the efforts of the coach and the team who are only trying to do their best? You want to equate dollars spend (and where are the numbers, by the way) in the past with results today - as spent on other, earlier coaches versus our existing program. As in that was then and now is now. If you know all there is to know, and are ready to step up, why not deliver an ultimatum to Vicky herself face to face?

No, that's not going to happen, now that you have thought about it a bit more.

If true supporters just took the time and effort to evaluate how they come across, maybe, just maybe, they will comport themselves as such.

Go 'gate!
Gate'83

So I've got no real lax opinions since I don't follow the team... but I do think Go Gate is generally a pro Colgate dude who can be cut some slack here.  You want negative, try the Holy Cross basketball board prior to their improbable tournament run!
RichH

'83
Cross board.has hyperbolic mood swings in football also. Amusing in a sort of demented way Smile.
Raider Archivist

Like many of you, I have an obsession with college sports and enjoy reading about other PL schools. The HC Sportsboard is a very special situation. Its mood swings, imho, are a reflection of the HC "brand" being stuck overall. The athletic component became a mess when FR Brooks wanted nothing to do with the "bread and circus" of college sports. That cut off the legs of alumni steeped in the HC traditions. But, there's also the fact that HC has been slow to expand beyond its New England orientation for students while liberal arts colleges, in the current era, are pressed to market themselves.So, both their athletic legacy and their selectivity have been assaulted. With the new AD and presumably a BOT willing to open its checkbook, it will gradually crawl its way back into relevancy in the PL.

What becomes comical is that before HC has demonstrated that it can actually compete in the PL, the HC hardcore alumni already have their sights on A-10 and Big East membership, poo-poo-ing the PL. They are also obsessed with Ivy envy, accacerbated by a sensitivity to HC's selectivity hitting the skids. These factions are obviously small but vocal groups within the HC alumni community. The general HC alumni, like the alumni of the rest of the PL institutions are probably very content with the ethos of the student-athlete that the PL has developed.

If you want some comic relief, check out http://s2.excoboard.com/Crossports sometime after HC gets crushed in a big game. Otherwise, the Board is an informative source of good banter about all of the PL, college sports and beyond.
bison137

The Future wrote:


I don't know what the scholarship situation is at Colgate but it seems like Colgate has fewer to offer than the top lacrosse schools (and a lot less than the Ivies). Seems to make sense that you would have more up and down years with fewer guys getting full rides since there is less of a margin for error in terms of who you bring in and what happens when guys get hurt.



Based on reported numbers, Colgate has the equivalent of about 8 scholarships.   The NCAA max is 12.6.    The Ivies, of course, have none - but have unlimited need-based aid when players qualify.   As for the Patriot League, CU is squarely in the middle.   Significantly less than Loyola, Boston U, and Lehigh - who are at or near the max - and a lot more than Bucknell, Lafayette, and Holy Cross.


Note: Boston U is not at the max yet because they only have three classes in place.   They will be maxed out come September.
CR(colorlessraider)

HC. Vs Gate

Two poor teams battling it out . Sloppy lax. Colgate has a long way to go and needs talent!
60salum

12-6 loss...yuk. What has happened to Colgate LAX? And this against HC!
go'gate

We actually dominated f/o, not all bad.  Looks like Lehigh has the same Cornell bug we do.

Beat Lafayette!
Steve

This mlax game vs HC was the pits- as in deflating and dispiriting. We had only lost ONCE before and that was is 2012 by one goal!

What balanced the day was mten 7-0 over Loyola and wlax over Bucknell by a goal. We had been ahead 4-0 fast and Bucknell never caught up. Their "leading" player had 2 yellow cards and 2 of their players had illegal stick penalties before the game even started. Sloppy. Our record? That's 34 Raider wins vs 3 losses!
Gate Raider

The purpose of this board is to discuss sports.  That means on both the plus and minus sides.  That means reading opinions that might not agree with yours.  That is what makes in interesting.  If you just want to preach to the choir go to church.  Colgate plays at the Div. 1 level and there are expectations of performance.  AD's and coaches get paid to perform to expectations and some of the players receive quite good stipends to play for Colgate.  AD's, coaches and players make mistakes and there is nothing wrong with pointing them out and being critical of performance.  This is not an "Everyone gets a trophy" scene.  If you want that, follow D3.
CR(colorlessraider)

Rocked out a win

Over last place Lafayette.
Steve

You may have noticed that HC beat BU in mlax 11-7 which gives them their first tournament appearance! This win puts our loss to them into perspective; theirs is a program that improved over the year and so it's a credit to them.

About Lafayette and the game Colgate we won, I noticed that their announcers
discussed repeatedly all the losses they suffered by a few goals. That's one way of looking at it and one which does not denigrate the program. Smart, in my opinion, if you want to recover your pride and move forward.

Go 'gate!
bison137

Steve wrote:


About Lafayette and the game Colgate we won, I noticed that their announcers
discussed repeatedly all the losses they suffered by a few goals. That's one way of looking at it and one which does not denigrate the program. Smart, in my opinion, if you want to recover your pride and move forward.




Maybe it's good for the announcers to cover for a really weak team - but the reality is that Lafayette lost 11 games and the CLOSEST loss was by 4 goals.
go'gate

Rogalski just finished his 4th season as HC at Lafayette with a record of 12-42 (2-28, PL).  Their program is 3-39 in PL since 2010 and needs a boost.  Lax is a great spring sport that could get a loyal following at any school, assuming the $$$ commitment is there.
Steve

There is always more than ***$$$*** relative to a successful and enduring varsity sports program.

Like the quality of recruits and their mindset, their dedication over 4 years as they become leaders on the time or just plain good followers, training staff and facilities during the winter season especially, team morale and leadership, the academic work/life balance, and, yes, fan support.

As it goes, money is not the answer... Sure, it helps but operating a successful D1 lacrosse program at a place like Colgate is not a business. It's a process involving non-professional athletes who happen to be teenagers at matriculation, striving to achieve their personal, academic goals primarily.

In the case of Colgate, with its harsh winters, and its single indoor practice facility, Sanford, I am so keen to hear more from Vicky and Murray about renovating Starr to deliver more space I could spit. That does, of course, require money, but it also requires vision by a group of leaders, supporters who are most probably alumni. Let's see what happens when President Brian Casey take the helm in July.

Wouldn't it be great if this was a topic within his talk at the President's Club event on the Intrepid next Friday?
RichH

Money is a factor but not the solution. In lax, just take a look at Bucknell which gives less than half thevpermitted number of schollies. They embarrassed Lehigh, a fully funded team. To me the 2 most important factors are coaching and the personality of the school and how various recruits fit or dont fit.
Most of us should be pleased that our schools have an actual commitment to athletic as well as academic success.
Gate will fix lax program. You are not Lafayette content to lose in every sport.
go'gate

30 players on All-Patriot 1st/2nd teams.  No players from Lafayette or 'Gate.  No 3-peat ROTY winner for the Raiders this season; hopefully next year we'll make a better showing.

http://www.insidelacrosse.com/art...-s-spencer-earns-two-awards/34897
bison137

RichH wrote:
Money is a factor but not the solution. In lax, just take a look at Bucknell which gives less than half thevpermitted number of schollies. They embarrassed Lehigh, a fully funded team. .



Your point is valid, but not your numbers.   Bucknell only gives out 1/5 of one scholarship over a four year period - and that was a special dispensation for a memorial gift.   There is also some need-based aid , as in the old football model, but even with the need-based aid included, Bucknell gives out a fraction of what the other contenders give out.  Eventually the program will collapse if things aren't changed, but Fedorjaka has amazingly kept them relevant for a long time.
RichH

Well that would be less than.one half Smile
Projecting that model to the future,I agree that it will get increasingly difficult to recruit. For us to compete with B10 and ACC powers, funding has to be increased for all lax teams. To have the PL bifurcated into funded and minimally funded teams is not sustainable.
Raider Archivist

POSTSCRIPT FOR A VERY DISAPPOINTING MLAX YEAR FOR GATE

No doubt this was among the worst years, performance wise, for Gate MLAX in the past 5 to 15 years ( 2010, 3-10, 2001, 3-10 ). http://gocolgateraiders.com.s3.am...nts/2015/7/30/Men_sLacrosse66.pdf

On the other hand, the PL MLAX teams are having a banner year in the 2016 MLAX NCAA Tourney so far. Loyola ( PL Champ and AQ qualifier ) handily defeated Duke at home http://www.loyolagreyhounds.com/sports/m-lacros/recaps/051416aaa.html . At large pick ( by a whisker ) Navy upset #4 Yale by 3 points in New Haven http://www.navysports.com/sports/m-lacros/recaps/051516aaa.html.

Someone will have to check the PL and NCAA MLAX record books to see if there have ever been 2 PL teams who, in the same year, have each won their first round NCAA tourney games. I doubt it ! The net effect is that Loyola and Navy now represent the PL proudly as two of the eight teams left in the tournament.

While not a direct win for Colgate, the PL nationally is increasingly viewed as sponsoring MLAX leaague-wide that is "in the mix at the top level of Div. I."  And it should be this way. The supply-demand equation for PL institutions attracting top quality student-athletes relative to the 60-something Div. I schools is unparalleled. The demographics of secondary schools around the country pumping out qualified MLAX student athletes couldn't fit any better with the demographics of PL institutions. It will be interesting to see if Gate can get back in its groove or whether it will concede its traditional role to the other upstart and hungry PL teams. Though its leaders may change from year to year, the prominence of the PL itself will continue to rise within the competitive landscape of Div I MLAX. That's not a negative for 'gate.
RichH

This is the 1st time PL has had 2 teams in the NCAAs.
bison137

RichH wrote:
This is the 1st time PL has had 2 teams in the NCAAs.



Other years with multiple PL teams in the NCAA tournament:

2012 - Colgate, Lehigh
2008 - Navy, Colgate
2005 - Army, Navy
2004 - Hobart, Army, Navy
go'gate

Not sure USA Today is the know-all of college lacrosse, but a nice tribute despite this past season's woes.  All you had to do was watch the playoffs to know that any of the teams listed would paste the Raiders on any given Saturday.  That said, lax + academics at Colgate can't be beat.

http://college.usatoday.com/2016/...osse-colleges-in-the-u-s/?ref=yfp
go'gate

Another season begins Feb. 11 vs. Marist.  Hoping for some improvements from last season's 4-10 record that make us a tournament contender and puts Colgate back on the map.  Perhaps this will help:

RECRUITING CLASS RANKED 19th NATIONALLY

http://gocolgateraiders.com/news/...e-decorated-recruiting-class.aspx

MLAX OOC games.  Dump Binghamton and Siena.  Would be nice to play some competition outside of NY in some other power conferences.
Marist (9-7)
Binghamton (4-10)
Hobart (10-7)
Siena (3-10)
Cornell (6-7)
Syracuse (lost 3-18 last year)

Hoping for a return to the PL tournament and an improvement over an 8-9 season last year for the women's team.  Not overly impressed with their OOC schedule, either.

WLAX OOC games:
Vermont (6-10)
Binghamton (6-11)
Siena (7-10)
Niagara (9-9)
Cornell (14-5)
Fresno State (5-10)
go'gate

From Quint himself, looks like we've got our work cut out for us again.  What has happened to our program?  Even BostonU is at #24, not bad for the newest league member.  Go figure.

http://www.insidelacrosse.com/art...i-team-1-71-in-one-sentence/48185
Oldtimer

Also sounds like we got beat up pretty badly by Delaware in our annual preseason scrimmage 19-12. It was close at the half so I hope coach was trying out the new guys and different combos in the 2nd otherwise D looks porous. In the past we've always handled UD pretty easily in this scrimmage...
go'gate

Think we tied them 8-8 last year.  My optimism is already shot!
go'gate

An ominous start to the lacrosse season.  Hate to write the season off, but a turnaround feels unlikely.  Just ask men's hockey.  Supposedly a good recruiting class that may need some time to develop.  Unfortunate to wait an entire year after a 4-10 season only to have more of the same, which is atypical for Colgate lax.  Gone are Peter Baum, Matt Lalli...are we back to mediocrity?  Why isn't this program sustainable?
Oldtimer

Time will tell if Bucknell is any good this year but they were 2-1 against some decent teams (losing by only a goal in their one loss to Fairfield) and we kicked them today. Came out fast and strong in both first and third quarters and had excellent scoring balance. Hope this is a good omen going forward. HC beat up on Lehigh today as well and Army beat Cuse...
Steve

This is a big win for Coach Murphy who seems to always have Bucknell's number as per the record books. Well done and I hope the win sets the pace for the rest of the PL season!

(I wanted to get a plug in before 'gate83 did. He always ALWAYS has something positive and thoughtful to say about individual programs... This time at least he won't beat me to the line.)

Go 'gate!
go'gate

First thought when I saw the score was...Bucknell must be bad this year.  I will try to add more optimism to the bandwagon but will approach with skepticism, which is what the team deserves after losses to Marist and Binghamton!

BostonU, the PL's newest lax member, topping the league already and continuing to make a name for itself.

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