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Gate63

Stats Project

Side project that I started a few years ago that I forgot about (or maybe I made myself forget because it is so tedious). Using newspaper articles from the time, I have been rebuilding the scoring stats for all of the early years where the school does not have any official records. So far I have completed 1890-1919. Way more complicated than you want to know, but the Excel doc is all connected with VLookups and links to each player's individual stat worksheet. Maybe in 10 or 20 years I'll actually finish... Shocked



Gate Raider

Ryan, do you need 1890 to 1907?  And, what years after 1920?
Gate63

I did 1890, so I still have 1891-1907 to do. Then I plan on going from 1920-1945ish. The official records for individual scoring leaders that the school has picks up at 1945ish so I want to fill in that gap. As a side effect, I have uncovered several players that have already been added (or will be) to the official record book for single play/game records.
Gate63

Found a pretty significant record today. Ed Tryon scored 7 touchdowns (42 points) against Niagara in 1923.

As a side note, I also found that Tryon scored 34 points (5 touchdowns, 4 extra points) in a 1925 game against Clarkson.

The previous listed record was 5 touchdowns and 30 points shared by 4 players.

https://twitter.com/ColgateFootball/status/686967235710062592
https://twitter.com/ColgateFootball/status/686967934170861568
The Future

Looks like you rewrote the Colgate football history books after all.
Gate63

The Future wrote:
Looks like you rewrote the Colgate football history books after all.


Ha! Guess you're right.
Gate Raider

Ryan, below is a link to a site you might not be familiar with but could be helpful in looking up some football stats. The name is misleading.  It is free and has microfiche copies of many NY state newspapers (Madison even had one)  that can be searched (by a name, school, school sport, and on).  Many of the papers go back into the 1800's.  It is quite voluminous but it works.  With you tech skills you should be able to narrow down results.  Search results are listed with the best hits listed first and that helps because there can be a lot of hits from several newspapers.  I have used it for other purposes.    
   The search fields are on the left side of the front page.  Be sure to scroll down below the search fields where you will find a scrolling horizontal line that has some tips on searching.  Obviously, narrowing the search will help.  You will find lots of info on Colgate football which could be helpful or searching might drive you crazy.  The site is pretty much the work of one man and must take a heck of a lot of time.  
   http://fultonhistory.com/Fulton.html
Gate63

Gate Raider wrote:
Ryan, below is a link to a site you might not be familiar with but could be helpful in looking up some football stats. The name is misleading.  It is free and has microfiche copies of many NY state newspapers (Madison even had one)  that can be searched (by a name, school, school sport, and on).  Many of the papers go back into the 1800's.  It is quite voluminous but it works.  With you tech skills you should be able to narrow down results.  Search results are listed with the best hits listed first and that helps because there can be a lot of hits from several newspapers.  I have used it for other purposes.    
   The search fields are on the left side of the front page.  Be sure to scroll down below the search fields where you will find a scrolling horizontal line that has some tips on searching.  Obviously, narrowing the search will help.  You will find lots of info on Colgate football which could be helpful or searching might drive you crazy.  The site is pretty much the work of one man and must take a heck of a lot of time.  
   http://fultonhistory.com/Fulton.html


Thanks! I can't tell you how many hours I have sunk into that site and how many gigabytes of PDF documents I have saved from it. That and the Colgate Library Digital Archives (http://exlibris.colgate.edu/digital/index.html) have made this possible. Even so, there are 3 full games from 1905-1919 that I have not been able to find any scoring stats on:

- 1905 vs Cortland
- 1908 vs Hobart
- 1910 vs Clarkson

Every other game is almost 100% accounted for with the exception of who kicked an extra point here and there. As I work into the 1920's and 30's I'm sure I will be tempted to track more than just touchdowns, field goals, and extra points because the record keeping got a little better.
Gate Raider

Sorry, I thought I had something for you.  You are right, that site consumes hours and can be annoying.  I'll search for info on those three games but, if you didn't find anything, I doubt I will.
Gate63

Re-writing the record books some more. Not in a good way though. Colgate's record in 1900 is listed as 3-7, but that will soon be changed to 2-8. The second game vs Colgate Academy was actually a 6-0 loss, not a 6-0 win. This will impact every milestone win since then (100th, 200th, 300th, etc.)  Shocked
Gate63

Hmm, maybe, I tried to verify it in the Salmagundi and they list it as a 6-0 win... Do I believe the yearbook or the Madisonensis article written just after the game?  Question  Idea  Confused



Gate63

Confirmed as a loss thanks to the October 13, 1900 edition of the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle:

Tunkmaster

For what it's worth, Ellery Huntington's book Fifty Years of Colgate Football 1890-1940 lists the scores 6-0 over Colgate Academy for both games in 1900.
Gate63

I'm guessing the crew that put that together probably just went off the Salmagundi. Found another article that confirms it as a loss. This from the Utica Herald-Dispatch the day after the game:

Gate63

This confirms for me that they just went off the Salmagundi. 1899 Sal recap (and Huntington's book, and the school's current records) does not list a game (a win!) over the Colgate Academy. Thankfully, this removes any impact that my previous find had on overall win total/milestone wins...



Gate63

Another previously unreported game from 1898. A 6-6 tie with Hamilton on October 1. Colgate would play them again in November.


Gate'83

Figured this might be an appropriate place to post this story as we try to piece together football history.  Who's to say the Academy didn't call in the wrong result just to screw with us?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/16...ery-play-was-a-fake.html?emc=eta1

It's a great story that I had not heard before.  Enjoy!
Gate63

Still going through this. Just have 1920-1939 left to go. Found a new record for longest punt in Colgate history. Current reported record is 83 yards by Jerry Andrewlavage against Rutgers in 1977. Here is the write up of Joe Hoague's 86 yard punt against Cornell in 1940...

Gate63

Happy to say that I finished this. Or as much as I can finish it...

Feel free to download the documents here:

http://www.colgatefootballcollection.com/early-years.html
The Future

Pretty amazing all of the things you found--a lot of changes in longest plays. Begs the question, who do you trust more, the people in charge of the record books for Colgate or the newspaper writers? I'm sure both got it wrong a few times. In these days of instant replay, seems like football needs conclusive evidence to overturn calls. Will be interesting to see how much history you rewrite (and how much you can rewrite).
Gate63

The Future wrote:
Pretty amazing all of the things you found--a lot of changes in longest plays. Begs the question, who do you trust more, the people in charge of the record books for Colgate or the newspaper writers? I'm sure both got it wrong a few times. In these days of instant replay, seems like football needs conclusive evidence to overturn calls. Will be interesting to see how much history you rewrite (and how much you can rewrite).


Yep, school/local/national newspaper accounts are definitely not as accurate as today. Early reports seemed to round everything to the nearest 5 yard line. Anything major I tried to get multiple sources to confirm it (though they may not all be pictured in the doc). But I am still unsure about a few things: was the yardage reported for some players true rushing yardage or more along the lines of today's all-purpose yardage stat? Was the yardage on punts tracked from the line of scrimmage or where the ball was kicked from? etc. For the 295 yard game by Tryon there were multiple reports of that yardage and he did not have any notable kickoff returns. In a 1925 game he was reported as having 316 yards rushing, but I believe that was due in part to two 85 yard kickoff returns for TDs. For the 86 yard punt by Hoague the paper's were very specific about the line of scrimmage and where the punt ended up.

I am much more confident in the scoring leaders part. I made sure everything checked out with the total points the team scored for each year.

In any event, a fun little exercise that has left me with those documents as well as a game story for (almost) every single game from 1890-1944 saved on my computer.
The Future

Holy cow that's a lot of work. Have you talked to anyone at Colgate about them using it in any sort of official way? Would imagine they are aware of it/make up about half of the posters on this board.
Gate63

The Future wrote:
Holy cow that's a lot of work. Have you talked to anyone at Colgate about them using it in any sort of official way? Would imagine they are aware of it/make up about half of the posters on this board.


Yup, in the beginning I was in communication with John Painter and Bob Cornell. I was bugging them almost daily with stuff to add/change etc. I finally decided to just hold off until I was done. Sent everything over to them last night and told them they can use it however they'd like to. When I started I just wanted to get the scoring leader for each missing year, so hopefully they will fill that gap in.
The Future

Seems like it's time for The Scene to do an article about you rewriting the history books and maybe not rewriting them. (The story is in the pursuit as much as the results.) Be sure to post what gets changed or why stuff doesn't.

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