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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:32 pm  Reply with quote
RichH
Adonal Foyle Club
 
Joined: 14 Dec 2015
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DFW HOYA wrote:
Gate Raider wrote:
Look at the comments posted on this and other PL boards.  There is no interest in the FCS playoff unless your team happens to be in it.  I suspect almost no one on this board watched the championship game or even cared about it.  There would be more interest in a PL/Ivy bowl.


Where, exactly, would there be interest, outside a declining subset of the Northeast?  

Part of the natural interest in bowls, if such interest exists anymore, is teams that don't play each other regularly: Notre Dame-Ohio State, Stanford-Iowa, etc. If Colgate is playing an Ivy school it already meets every year or has played 50-odd times, there's not going to be any additional interest. And how many Red Raider fans would travel to Florida to play Cornell or Dartmouth?

Any Ivy game is not being discussed with a PL opponent. The PL (excepting Georgetown) is going in a different direction which will be more closely aligned with CAA schools than Ivies in the future.

Exactly. Competitor of rather than aligned with may be more apt description.
BTW,
I like your suggestion to stop AI banding in PL. Might need to raise floor a bit but it will help all PL not just GU.  Banding serves little actual purpose other than as a remnant of our Ivy Lite status.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:13 pm Reply with quote
Gate'83
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DFW HOYA wrote:

Where, exactly, would there be interest, outside a declining subset of the Northeast?  

Part of the natural interest in bowls, if such interest exists anymore, is teams that don't play each other regularly: Notre Dame-Ohio State, Stanford-Iowa, etc. If Colgate is playing an Ivy school it already meets every year or has played 50-odd times, there's not going to be any additional interest. And how many Red Raider fans would travel to Florida to play Cornell or Dartmouth?

Any Ivy game is not being discussed with a PL opponent. The PL (excepting Georgetown) is going in a different direction which will be more closely aligned with CAA schools than Ivies in the future.


I think the fair way to characterize this discussion is Gate Raider likes the Ivy/Patriot Bowl concept... not sure anyone else is really all that enthused.  I like the playoffs & much prefer taking a shot at the big boys vs. a meaningless exhibition, particularly (as you note) against teams we play all the time anyway.  Can't imagine there are any players out there who offered the choice between competing for a championship or playing an exhibition would choose the latter.  That we're discussing this now after a great run through UNH & JMU is particularly rich... imagine telling this year's team that next year rather than going to the playoffs they're playing for a chance at a postseason game against Dartmouth?  Sure that will pump up the team & the fans...
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:54 pm Reply with quote
Gate Raider
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Get rid of the AI?  Yeah, right.  Get rid of just about the only thing that makes Colgate and other PL schools distinct and different than, say, Bryant, Central CT and St. Francis.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:48 pm Reply with quote
RichH
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Gate Raider wrote:
Get rid of the AI?  Yeah, right.  Get rid of just about the only thing that makes Colgate and other PL schools distinct and different than, say, Bryant, Central CT and St. Francis.


No,not proposing dumping AI,just banding, which sets limits for low to high academic recruits.  We have a floor set,under which no school can recruit. That should be sufficient to balance out the various academic admission standards. The "Forham" rule was,IMO, ill advised and unnecessary. DFW's point is that the removal of banding will help GU competitiveness in PL. I agree. The current rule targetted at FU's seeming advantage with lower admission standards obviously had no impact on their recruiting.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:14 am Reply with quote
Gate Raider
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I couldn't back eliminating the bands.  Just get tougher with FU and, while you're at it, American and Loyola.  Keeping the academic level at PL schools high is critical IMHO.  It makes the PL what it is.  It makes attending Colgate worthwhile.  Don't want to be another JMU or SHSU.  BTW when you read or hear comments from many recruits, they often point to the academics as being an important factor in picking Colgate.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:21 am Reply with quote
RichH
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Gate Raider wrote:
I couldn't back eliminating the bands.  Just get tougher with FU and, while you're at it, American and Loyola.  Keeping the academic level at PL schools high is critical IMHO.  It makes the PL what it is.  It makes attending Colgate worthwhile.  Don't want to be another JMU or SHSU.  BTW when you read or hear comments from many recruits, they often point to the academics as being an important factor in picking Colgate.

I agree on our academic standing and the need to maintain it. IMO,banding has nothing to do with academic integrity. Its purpose is to enforce athletic parity,at least in recruiting.. I have no issue with Fordham as a member. Loyola and BU do present serious issues for me. Hopeful that their academic profile will improve over time. The AI floor has impacted quite a bit on the academic profile of their recruited athletes.
All banding does is insure that coaches can recruit limited numbers of athletes in the lowest band. The logic being dumber equals better athletes. Perhaps so,but all recruited prospects must score above the AI floor. The floor is the guarantee of academic integritu not banding.
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Banding
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:56 pm Reply with quote
CR(colorlessraider)
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I agree with RichH eliminate banding.  The AI floor is enough.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:56 pm Reply with quote
Gate Raider
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I would prefer the football and other teams be true representations of the entire student body.  Don't like the dumb jock image at all.  It stigmatizes the entire athletic program.  Athletes already get enough of a break on admission.  Certainly don't want to sacrifice academic integrity any more than it is now.  There is more to life and college than athletics.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:18 pm Reply with quote
RichH
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Joined: 14 Dec 2015
Posts: 59




Gate Raider wrote:
I would prefer the football and other teams be true representations of the entire student body.  Don't like the dumb jock image at all.  It stigmatizes the entire athletic program.  Athletes already get enough of a break on admission.  Certainly don't want to sacrifice academic integrity any more than it is now.  There is more to life and college than athletics.

Dont see any sacrifice . All players have to be qualified to enter Gate,LU et al just like every other student. The advantage a recruit has over other applicants is not laxer academic requirements but rather each Admissions Dept has slots for recruits. True they are not competing with other applicants for spots in the entering class but they are qualified for admission.  Remember that each recruit class must all be above the AI floor and the overall AI of the group must fall within set parameters to that of the entire entering class.
Since Fordham's academic profile is somewhat less than other schools in PL,banding and the floor were imposed to prevent FU from having an overwhelming edge in recruiting.
The floor is higher than AI of recruits that could be admittd to FU but not to any other PL school.
The flip side of this issue is GU. They have the highest academic profile in PL. All of lowest band recruits are actually well above the floor. Banding however limits them from bringing in more than a few low band kids each year even tho most of those kids would not be low band recruits at other PL schools. Unintended perhaps but surely unfair to Hoyas.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:25 am Reply with quote
Gate'83
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Thanks Rich, very clear explanation on banding & I can see why it would be a problem for the Hoyas.  I like beating them up every year, but with scholarships in place I'd think we'd try to help them out a little... as I don't think anyone wants to see them leave the league.

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Patriot League - Ivy League Post Season Bowl Game
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