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Admissions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:08 pm  Reply with quote
go'gate
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Class of 2021 Profile Here:

http://www.colgate.edu/admission-...cial-aid/first-year-class-profile

Have followed this closely over the decades.  Applications up only 148 and admit rate continues to be a bit high IMO at 28%.  The trend has been consistent while peer schools keep improving.  Just don't get it.  Stats made public listed below.  Some NESCAC schools traditionally fare well.

Boston U - 60,815 - 25% (pseudo-PL member)
Bowdoin - 7,251 - 13%
Bucknell - 10,967 - 25%
Colby - 11,190 - 16% (when did this happen?)
Colgate - 8,542 - 28%
Hamilton - 5,678 - 23.6%
Lafayette - 8,403 - TBA
Lehigh - TBA - 25%
Middlebury - 8,910 - 20%
Skidmore - 9,891 - 29%
Vassar - 7,746 - 22.8%
Williams - 8,953 - 15%


Last edited by go'gate on Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:42 am; edited 1 time in total

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:07 pm Reply with quote
Steve
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One important element in this conversation is the quality of the candidates for each college and then the competition Colgate has in terms of where the successful applicants for each college are accepted.

Another is what's involved in submitting the applications Colgate receives versus what other schools may require.

For example, Bucknell famously dropped an essay that had been required and reduces the application fee for some applicants- a few years ago. The result was an immediate and substantial increase in application numbers.

And ifyou imagine, for argument's sake that theirs is a slightly different applicant pool - bearing in mind that at the day's end their median accepted student score are lower and they bounced up the app numbers - and that their applicants' choices after being accepted are less desirable than those of Colgate, well, then their numbers look good. Apples to oranges.

If you want to discuss Colgate's application pool, the schools we overlap with and yearly trends you may want to discuss details with
Gary Ross. He has always been clear and responsive to me.

Go 'gate!



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:15 pm Reply with quote
Steve
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Joined: 14 Dec 2015
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One important element in this conversation is the quality of the candidates for each college and then the competition Colgate has in terms of where the successful applicants for each college are accepted.

Another is what's involved in submitting the applications Colgate receives versus what other schools may require.

For example, Bucknell famously dropped an essay that had been required and reduces the application fee for some applicants- a few years ago. The result was an immediate and substantial increase in application numbers.

And ifyou imagine, for argument's sake that theirs is a slightly different applicant pool - bearing in mind that at the day's end their median accepted student score are lower and they bounced up the app numbers - and that their applicants' choices after being accepted are less desirable than those of Colgate, well, then their numbers look good. Apples to oranges.

If you want to discuss Colgate's application pool, the schools we overlap with and yearly trends you may want to discuss details with
Gary Ross. He has always been clear and responsive to me.

Go 'gate!



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:07 am Reply with quote
go'gate
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Understand your points Steve, but Colgate needs to do more for itself and market its own brand.  Comparisons to other schools can be, as you say, like comparing apples to oranges, from D-I sports to ridiculous optional test scores to waiving the application fee.

Last year's statistics, Class of 2020:

Colby - 9,833 /18.7%
Bucknell - 10,487 / 29.9%
Hamilton - 5,230 / 26%

Optional SAT/ACT Scores are a huge factor in the application process.  This also inflates application numbers, IMO.  The list is mind-boggling and adds to a false sense of overall competitiveness among schools.

https://www.fairtest.org/university/optional

Hamilton - Went on a tour here 2 weeks ago with my niece.  Admissions is test flexible; submit you test scores and "we will combine your best scores from multiple exams to create you best profile."  Obviously this appealed to the audience and is an attractive "hook" for any applicant.  How can they ignore, or overlook, poor results when comparing applicants?  I just don't buy it.  Also stated they are one of 5 colleges to offer an open curriculum, unlike Colgate's Core, with no requirements, yet later mentioned 3 required writing-intensive courses.  It is a mind game and a joke.

Like it or not, rankings from USNews were charitable to Colgate this past year and gave us a much needed boost, but it didn't necessarily result in more applications.  We'll see what this fall's rankings bring.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colle...gs/national-liberal-arts-colleges

The academic strength of Colgate's applicants continues to improve, and maybe that is what matters most.  Colgate continues to enroll almost 50% of its applicants from ED, making RD acceptances a tougher 18%.

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Admissions
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:34 am Reply with quote
CR(colorlessraider)
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Very informative and excellent analysis of the Board scores inclusion or not being a major factor.  Looks like Colgate has to "play the game" to a certain extent.  It would give us some momentum in application growth. Smile
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The Acceptance Rate, alone, is an an incomplete indicator ?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:46 pm Reply with quote
Raider Archivist
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Eyeballing the Acceptance Rate has served as one of my quick and dirty metrics for updating the Colgate story. I also enjoy reading the.full range of info disseminated by the college and available thru the media. Often the latter includes info on the institutions with which we traditionally compete. Almost 50 years from my graduation, this effort helps to update a personal narrative I started in ancient history. These posts confirm at least two impressions: 1. inquiring skeptical minds can help us better understand the emerging competitive landscape  2. It’underscores the value and fun of inquiring minds sharing this info on this Board.

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:41 am Reply with quote
Steve
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ga'gate asks when did this happen regarding Colby.

The Bucknell wheeze followed a precedent started a year or so beforehand by Colby. Colby's president chose to add money to the financial aid pool, more staff to travel farther and sell the brand. The result was a 47% increase in application numbers- 7591 vs 5148 for the Class of 2019, and more applications from first generation college-bound students.

http://www.centralmaine.com/2015/...college-applications-on-the-rise/

The 7591 then is interesting since now they are at 9833 and so they ARE more competitive accepted rate-wise! Good for them. Whereas what Bucknell did and how they did are somewhat less clear, their yield improvement has not been as marked.

But as far as the bottom line is concerned, the question is where to the accepted students at these schools go. You have to look at where else they all apply, gain acceptance and then choose to attend. And remember how important financial aid is to very many of these applicants. The school's enrolled yield number, a different number than the yield number for accepted students, paints the "real" picture. We are currently at 32.5%. Think Harvard at 84%.

Colgate has done a heckuva lot in the past 10+ years in increasing the financial aid pot for deserving, admitted students. Of course, it seeks the best quality applicants and will meet 100% of demonstrated need to attract and "retain" them through the admissions process. So giving to the scholarship fund is the key to our ongoing success.

I would say that our improvement with finacial aid and the "outcomes" story from Career Services (in particular the Professional Networks they operate) has made a huge difference in the public's perception of Colgate's vitality: a big reputational shift. Each school with which we compete will have such strategic initiatives underway, too, as a means of shoring up past deficiencies and moving ahead.

To bear this out, again I would recommend you speak with Gary Ross to gain insight about recent trends in the market. Then there are conversations I like to have with Colgate presidents and Murray about what future projects and programs should be added to our portfolio in the coming years to enhance Colgate- alongside more financial aid. My vote for awhile has been a new performing arts center. They should tell you what that might mean favor an improved competitive position for Colgate.

Go 'gate!

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